30 Jan 2023
nine Yeah, the struggle for any effort is always to survive the slump after the initial excitement 17:29
coleman I think they're real issues, fwiw. But I dunno. Chillax?
Nemokosch that's really good news. Yesterday finanalyst joined our little rituale - Raku Study Group SF, every second sunday 13pm west coast time iirc - that was a pleasant surprise 17:30
rf I got 3 people trying out Raku tomorrow at a hackathon with me
nine Btw. the best way to guarantee that code that used to work will keep working is to write spec tests. We do have a very extensive test suite but it's by far not complete. So we have to resort to running published module's test suites as well before a release. But those can fail due to unrelated issues, so it's not water tight either. 17:31
coleman nine: over the next few weeks take notes on that stuff. I'd like to work on CI for core stuff after docs is done 17:32
I'm unfamiliar with how/where stuff runs, beyond JJ's Azure account and whatever GH Actions this or that repo is using.
I'm confident we can design something fast and effective and not commit to huge monies. :) 17:33
rf I really like SparrowCI by melezhik, its good stuff :D
And he's fronting the costs like a gentleman
coleman I like it, too. I think it will be in the mix.
Nemokosch yes, that can definitely go to the killer feature list 17:34
coleman Most open source projects have a mix of CI; often there's fast stuff on GH Actions and then more chonky integration tests on dedicated infra
One project of fairly high complexity that I'd point to is the LXD project 17:35
ugexe there is a running grant for our CI - the Raku CI Bot Grant
coleman they have a fairly nice CI setup
Nemokosch melezhik is also among the people who did more than one can keep track of. There was a Rakudo bug test environment as well, for example
coleman ugexe: that is great to know; can you link to it?
I saw a repo for a bot but didn't know what it was
ugexe: I'll tag you on an issue 17:37
ugexe coleman: www.perlfoundation.org/running-grants.html its the second item on the list
coleman ty 17:39
nine Ah, ugexe beat me to pointing that out :) 17:45
patrickb: people are curious about the Raku CI integration bot! 17:48
tonyo . 17:51
Nemokosch Patrick is cool 18:01
there is also something that one has to plan for... the formal breakup. There might be a day when the Perl5 folks ultimately say, "we are Perl, and Raku is not bringing anything to our table" 18:04
tonyo lizmat must've thought many times of that 18:09
Nemokosch from what I know, one can donate specifically to Perl vs Raku development for YAS. Curious about the numbers... 18:11
rf I would buy 100+ Camelia stickers if they were available 18:37
Mainly to give out at events :) 18:38
[Coke] I'm pretty sure the formal breakup already happened at some point in the last 20 years. 18:51
Not sure what would be left other than perhaps the non-profit group (which is for the two separate things) 18:52
tonyo TPF site is still in use, no? 18:55
Nemokosch not to imply that Raku core development was very prospering financially but still, I'd think it does make a difference if the Perl part of "The Perl and Raku Foundation" just disappeared from the back of the Raku community completely 18:56
[Coke] Ok, but do you think that's happening? 18:57
As a former member of the TPF on the Grants Committee, I've been pleasantly surprised with the TPF's willingness to also support Raku as a distinct thing, esp. with the recent naming changes. 18:58
Obviating the need for separate legal infrastructure (like we had for a while with the Parrot Foundation) 19:00
Nemokosch I don't know anything about that. It just hit me that the Perl macroverse has still more to offer for Raku than vice versa. I'm not even saying that this is the fault of the language or the people working on it, simply it seems that "we" have nothing to offer to them that they could use 19:01
rf We have Raku to offer them. 19:02
Nemokosch They have long made up their minds that backwards compatibility is "the killer feature" of Perl
[Coke] (sadface: wikipedia removed the page for Parrot Foundation)
Nemokosch Methinks backwards compatibility is indeed the feature that killed Perl 😂 🙊 19:04
cfa some folks just prefer perl to raku, and that's okay too
Nemokosch But yeah, joke aside, the main thing Raku could offer is all the concepts worked out into a language and ecosystem. And that's exactly what Perl won't take. 19:06
cfa but perl did borrow much from raku / p6
some thing more successfully than others
things* 19:07
Nemokosch probably you have a point but we could also say that with some things (like typing, function signatures, rich control structures), there was like natural convergence that one could hardly "trigger" just by the charm of Perl6/Raku 19:10
rf No rakudo news today? 19:11
raschip lizmat said she will publish tomorrow
Nemokosch lizmat announced that she would be away for most of today 19:12
rf Must have missed that, thanks!