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japhb__ jnthn: excellent. 00:06
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dalek p: 183b8af | dwarring++ | examples/rubyish/ (2 files):
rubyish =begin .. =end multiline comments. simplify slurpy hashes

00:46 rurban left
dalek kudo/nom: cf0b0ca | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/core/Threading.pm:
Better enforce Exception object coercion.

kudo/nom: 3208450 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/core/Threading.pm:
Use Promise::Keeper in Channel.

To be more robust.
kudo/nom: 9d54481 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/core/Threading.pm:
Add Subscribable, and initial publish bits.

This is the first piece towards enabling reactive programming with push-collections, a la Rx. Many combinators to come.
ast: b9d4b05 | jonathan++ | S17-concurrency/subscribable.t:
Add basic Subscribable tests.

jnthn 'night 00:59
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dalek -pb: 5f9f01b | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
Add PB::Binary::WireTypes with tests

Put WireType enumeration in a common place, with tests to make sure the values don't accidentally change (they're part of the PB standard).
-pb: ad86091 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (4 files):
Switch to using PB::Binary::WireTypes

Move code and tests using either WIRE_TYPE_* or hard-coded numbers to the WireType::* enum instead.
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dwarring has the module smoke server gone out? I've been using 01:41
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dwarring no results since 25th Oct 01:41
colomon panda has been broken 01:46
r: say "TH̘E􏿽xCD􏿽x84􏿽xCC􏿽x89􏿽xCD􏿽x96 ͠P̯͍̭O̚​N̐Y̡ H􏿽xCD􏿽xA8􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽xBD􏿽xCC􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCC􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽xA1􏿽xCC􏿽xB8􏿽xCC􏿽xAA􏿽xCC􏿽xAFE􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCD􏿽x9B􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCD􏿽x84􏿽xCC􏿽x80􏿽xCC􏿽x81􏿽xCC􏿽xA7􏿽xCD􏿽x98􏿽xCC􏿽xAC􏿽xCC􏿽xA9 􏿽xCD􏿽xA7􏿽xCC􏿽xBE􏿽xCD􏿽xAC􏿽xCC􏿽xA7􏿽xCC􏿽xB6􏿽xCC􏿽xA8􏿽xCC􏿽xB1􏿽xCC􏿽xB9􏿽xCC􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽xAFC􏿽xCD􏿽xAD􏿽xCC􏿽x8F􏿽xCD􏿽xA5􏿽xCD􏿽xAE􏿽xCD􏿽x9F􏿽xCC􏿽xB7􏿽xCC􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽xB2􏿽xCC􏿽x9D􏿽xCD􏿽x96Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M􏿽xCD􏿽x8A􏿽xCC􏿽x92􏿽xCC􏿽x9A􏿽xCD􏿽xAA􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽xAC􏿽xCC􏿽x9A􏿽xCD􏿽x9C􏿽xCC􏿽xB2􏿽xCC􏿽x96E􏿽xCC􏿽x91􏿽xCD􏿽xA9􏿽xCD􏿽x8C􏿽xCD􏿽x9D􏿽xCC􏿽xB4􏿽xCC􏿽x9F􏿽xCC􏿽x9F􏿽xCD􏿽x99􏿽xCC􏿽x9ES􏿽xCD􏿽xAF􏿽xCC􏿽xBF􏿽xCC􏿽x94􏿽xCC􏿽xA8􏿽xCD􏿽x80􏿽xCC􏿽xA5􏿽xCD􏿽x85􏿽xCC􏿽xAB􏿽xCD􏿽x8E􏿽xCC􏿽xAD".ords 02:02
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«84 72 792 69 836 777 854 32 864 80 815 845 813 79 794 8203 78 784 89 801 32 72 872 842 829 773 830 782 801 824 810 815 69 830 859 874 836 768 769 807 856 812 809 32 871 830 876 807 822 808 817 825 813 815 67 877 783 869 878 863 823 793…»
dwarring heh
japhb__ What is with the pony, anyway? I mean, I remember the "you can't parse HTML with regexes" rant on SO that ended with "Tony the pony he comes", but where did *that* come from? 02:04
colomon colomon has no clue, but was looking for a wicked Unicode string to use as a test case for work.
japhb__ That qualifies.
I tested PB serialization of strings with just two: an ASCII-only one, and one that contained one-, two-, and three-byte Unicode codepoint values. 02:07
I figure if those both roundtrip, there's half the battle right there.
colomon That's essentially what I'm looking to do here, too.
japhb__ Oh interesting! When I switched screens (ctrl-A ctrl-A) to another screen and back, the rendering of your test string *changed*. 02:08
colomon serialization via the STEP file format.
japhb__ japhb__ is trying to think of a properly sixish and yet still performant and relatively space-efficient way to represent messages in decoded form in memory 02:10
colomon insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2013/...ween-2013/ 02:12
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colomon BTW, that pony string in STEP encoding (according to my code I"m testing): TH\X2\0318\X0\E\X2\0344\X0\\X2\0309\X0\\X2\0356\X0\ \X2\0360\X0\P\X2\032F\X0\\X2\034D\X0\\X2\032D\X0\O\X2\031A\X0\\X2\200B\X0\N\X2\0310\X0\Y\X2\0321\X0\ 02:20
kind of ugly, I guess 02:22
japhb__ uh, yeah.
colomon The good news is, it seems to work. 02:23
assuming my test isn't broken. ;)
japhb__ Well, there is that. 02:24
r: say Nil.^mro 02:26
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«Nil (Iterator) (Iterable) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
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colomon okay, scary bug. One version of the STEP translator handled the unicode well. The other version, instead of converting to utf32 and writing out the corresponding codes (like \X2\033D\X0\), just wrote out the utf8 bytes. The test passed because it round-tripped perfectly, but the actual format of the STEP file it work was quite illegal. :\ 02:44
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japhb__ OK, I need to carry around a lot of meta information about all the attributes of each message class. I'm not sure of the best way to do this. One thought is to subclass ClassHOW so that I can build message classes using a subclass of Attribute that has extra storage, and then adding some trait_mod:<is> multis for the new info. 03:17
I don't know if that "Just Works", however.
If it does work, it feels like the most sixish way of doing it. 03:18
Anyone have any better ideas, before I run off and hack some crazy prototype? 03:19
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timotimo i'm not sure if it helps, but i've done some class generation at compile time in my ADT module 03:25
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dwarring Tony the pony: msmvps.com/blogs/jon_skeet/archive/...-fail.aspx 03:37
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BenGoldberg goodnight 04:20
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dwarring rn: say "Les Misérables".split("").reverse.reverse.join 05:15
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33, niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«Les Misérables␤»
dwarring :)
rn: say 0.3 == 3/10 05:16
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33, niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«True␤» 05:17
dwarring :) :)
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retupmoca rn: say "Les Misérables".comb.reverse.join 05:28
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33, niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«selbarésiM seL␤»
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dwarring rn: my $s = "Mise" ~ chr(0x301) ~ "rables"; say $s; say $s.comb.reverse.join("") 05:42
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33, niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«Mise􏿽xCC􏿽x81rables␤selbar􏿽xCC􏿽x81esiM␤»
dwarring dwarring needs normalization I guess 05:43
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TimToady needs NFG 05:59
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masak mooring, #perl6 07:40
FROGGS morning 07:49
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muixirt good morning 08:05
tried to build the recent R* package but it failed because of icu issues 08:07
how do I fix that?
moritz start by nopasting the error messages 08:08
muixirt: do you happen to use a newish Ubuntu?
muixirt moritz: yes 08:09
moritz muixirt: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-10-25#i_7763459 describes a workaround
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hoelzro доброе утро, #perl6! 08:16
muixirt thanks moritz that helped 08:17
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masak www.aaronbeppu.com/blog/2013-10-30-...pdate.html -- this reminded me of hugme. :) 08:20
masak hugs hugme :)
muixirt first I thought parrot was the guilty part
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FROGGS moritz / muixirt: I filed a bug report at bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/...ug/1247024 09:19
isBEKaml hey guys, I ran into an issue with error reporting today when I was building nqp jvm: gist.github.com/anonymous/7262942
It's funny because I'm still building stage1, where did stage2 come from? The directory doesn't even exist! 09:20
FROGGS stage2 should be in nqp/src 09:22
nvm, the path has changed
isBEKaml Should it be coming from those bootstrapped jars in src/vm/jvm/stage0? If that's the case, directory reported are all wrong. 09:25
FROGGS the reported dir could be reported wrongly, because the shipped stage0 was a stage2 of somebody else 09:27
isBEKaml yes, that's what I think. 09:28
FROGGS still we need to cope with the error
trying now to build an nqp@jvm 09:29
isBEKaml that'll build fine if you're using the shipped Configure.pl and makefiles. I'm using ant since I was not able to install nmake last I tried. 09:30
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isBEKaml I'm building the ant script as I poke around in nqp. :-) 09:30
ant -> ant.apache.org 09:31
the only way to reproduce this would be to make some trivial change in $(J_STAGE1)/$(CORE_SETTING_JAR) so that it fails. Then the stage0 jar will throw this error. 09:32
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FROGGS ahh 09:40
yes, it built fine 09:41
maybe moritz an explain the changes he made to the build system better
I must go now and will be here in an hour or so 09:42
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isBEKaml Sure, thank you. 09:44
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jnthn jnthn -> salzburg for APW 09:57
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isBEKaml jnthn: salty fortress? :-) 10:02
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lizmat_ lizmat_ is off to see more Salzburg sights 10:10
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masak isBEKaml: isn't de:"burg" in this sense en:"city" rather than en:"fortress"? 10:28
I mean, en:"citizen" is de:"burger", so...
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masak moukeddar! \o/ 10:30
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hoelzro class attributes are implicitly ro, right? 11:17
oh, wait 11:18
I think I misunderstood
'is rw' only applies to the generated methods
hoelzro thought he found a bug
masak hoelzro: right -- the attribute slots are 'rw' by default. accessors are 'readonly' by default. 11:22
hoelzro why is the ro trait named 'readonly'? why not 'ro' to be more consistent with 'rw'? 11:23
I presume that return-rw does something with containers to implements its semantics? 11:24
hoelzro muses on how to implement triggers when using return-rw for attribute accessors 11:25
masak hoelzro: the official party line is that 'readonly' is more Huffmanly correct than 'ro'. 11:31
moritz readonly is the default for attributes and parameters, so there's not much point shortening it 11:36
when would you even write it explicitly?
masak I, personally, never use it. 11:37
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mathw it makes sense. read-write is the exceptional circumstance, read-only is the one you almost never need to explicitly say 11:48
masak the only thing that nags me about it is that people keep asking "why isn't is written 'ro'?", and so it becomes a FAQ. 11:49
and the only reason it's a FAQ rather than being spelled 'ro' is some stubborn notion of Huffmanliness.
huf you cant have it ro! it'll upset your stomach! 11:50
cook it first
mathw personally I think it's easier to figure out what 'rw' means than 'ro'
'is ro', what's ro? my brain goes
probably because I've watched too much Star Trek
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masak 'is ro' also has prior art in Moose. 11:53
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isBEKaml masak: maybe. I just picked it directly off wikipedia. Also, de:salzig means en:salty. :-) 12:19
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pippo nr: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array 12:22
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33, niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73…»
pippo nr: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',')
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33, niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73…»
pippo nr: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',').split(',')
camelia rakudo-parrot 9d5448, rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 12:23
..niecza v24-98-g473bd20: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 8…»
pippo There is something wrong with that "split" on rakudo jvm. It eats up too much memory and takes to much time 12:26
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masak isBEKaml: also, de:salz means en:salt :) 12:38
isBEKaml: hence my pun about Säureburg and Baseburg. 12:39
isBEKaml masak: yessir :-)
sauerburg :) 12:40
masak autopun-ish: twitter.com/schuyler/status/396167385868021761
isBEKaml ehh, who is cmasak and masak on twitter? 12:41
arnsholt masak: That's awesome! =D
isBEKaml ehh, I kinda vaguely get it - given that their entire vocabulary is 23 words or so. :P 12:43
masak isBEKaml: no, that's not it. 12:45
isBEKaml: maybe en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowclone will help elucidate the matter.
isBEKaml masak: then I read the wikipedia page on it and the first sentence gave it away. :P 12:46
masak the tweet is more of a self-referential snowclone than an autopun, actually.
isBEKaml yeah, they have something like 50 words for snow. each adding to the other.
so it's difficult to think objectively about any one thing in Inuit/Eskimo language. 12:47
I was looking at this and then it fell in: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow 12:48
masak "Snowclones are memechés, if you will: meme-ified clichés with the operative words removed, leaving spaces for you or the masses to Mad Lib their own versions."
isBEKaml: I don't find it very well-defined to talk about "N words for <anything>" in a strongly agglutinative language. 12:49
it's about as useful as saying "C has 93,741 ways to index the first element of an array". 12:50
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isBEKaml yeah, that's what I meant when I said "each adding to the other" about their words for snow. :-) 12:51
Okay, now back to lurking mode - fiddling with nqp. :D 12:52
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arnsholt IIRC serious people have actually looked into how many distinct roots various Inuit languages have for snow 12:57
It varies between languages, obviously. But apparently it can be framed in a way that makes sense for the languages
masak roots would be more informative. :) 12:58
arnsholt Yeah. As you said, word isn't a very useful entity in polysynthetic languages =) 13:00
At least not in this context
If we're discussing the boundaries between morphology and syntax, they're very interesting indeed =D
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pippo should'nt this be linear in time with the number of cycles ? "my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',').split(',')" 13:04
masak pippo: yes, it should. 13:06
pippo: maybe there is a Schlemiel in there somewhere.
pippo in rakudo jvm it is not. the above takes far more time than this: "my @array; for ^41 {for ^501 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',').split(',')"} 13:07
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pippo masak: what is a "Schlemiel" 13:10
isBEKaml bungler 13:11
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masak pippo: "Who is Shlemiel? He's the guy in this joke [...]" www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog...00319.html 13:13
[Coke] lizmat++
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pippo masak: are you referring to me? 13:15
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isBEKaml ayttm? 13:15
masak pippo: no, I was referring to the very specific software mistake of introducing an O(x**2) algorithm inside of a process that need only take O(x) time.
pippo: sorry, I was chunking that whole concept down into that word. 13:16
but the article makes it very clear what I meant. :)
isBEKaml pippo: Schlemiel means "a bungler" - a slang word 13:17
dalek rl6-roast-data: 55d18c6 | coke++ | / (5 files):
today (automated commit)

rl6-roast-data: 688234a | coke++ | doit:
avoid git failures when extra .out files exist

pippo masak: I am a newbie. I just like perl6 very much and I would like to use it for practical problems. But rakudo JVM cannot even read a cvs file (the rason for the split above) without crashing or taking too much time
[Coke] rakudo-jvm has large startup costs relative to rakudo-parrot, btw. 13:19
pippo It is not the startup that makes me unhappy. 13:20
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jaffa4 pippo: life? 13:23
pippo: it has not crashed for me yet
pippo jaffa4: what is the time of execution on your machine for this: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',').split(',') 13:24
jaffa4 quite fast 13:26
pippo on rakudo jvm?
jaffa4 rakudo 10.2013
parrot based
pippo I was referring to jvm? 13:27
I was referring to jvm!
jaffa4 pippo:ok
jvm: print 'hello' 13:28
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[Coke] rj: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',').split(','); 13:28
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 13:29
jaffa4 what is rj?
FROGGS rj: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',')
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
FROGGS rj: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say 1
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
[Coke] jaffa4: rakudo-jvm
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jaffa4 rj: my @array; for 1..20000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say 1 13:30
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
jaffa4 rakudo: my @array; for 1..20000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say 1
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 13:31
..rakudo-parrot 9d5448: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak jaffa4: you can see it from the camelia output -- when one types 'rj', it replies 'rakudo-jvm'.
pippo rj: say "Hello"
masak (timeout)
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
masak rj: print "(timeout)"
jaffa4 that is cheating 13:32
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
masak rj: sleep 10; print "(timeout)"
moritz it seems that the eval soerver isn't stable enough yet
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
masak :)
moritz j: say 'alive again' 13:33
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«alive again␤»
FROGGS C:\rakudo>perl6 -e "use Shell::Command; mkpath('a\\b')"
Failed to create directory 'a\b/' with mode '0o777': mkdir failed: Das System kann den angegebenen Pfad nicht finden.
something there does not like backslashes 13:34
moritz ouch
isBEKaml eh, what? chmod o777?
moritz windows
no umask set
or something
pippo I think rj has crashed like when executing on my machine when I do "my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',').split(',');"
isBEKaml but it doesn't make sense to use it on windows or even display that, right? 13:35
moritz moritz shrugs
pippo rj: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(','); # this is safe 13:36
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,…»
pippo and not safe when you add the split at the end... 13:37
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[Coke] (eval server not stable) - wonder if someone else is finally seeing the issue I had with test_summary.pl where it would eventually just stop responding. 13:37
isBEKaml pippo: assign and split? 13:38
pippo this: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; say @array.join(',').split(','); <== this split
moritz [Coke]: I've had that too, with spectest 13:39
[Coke] moritz: yay, it's not just me? :|
[Coke] commutes
isBEKaml rj: my @array; for ^20_000 {@array[$_]=$_}; my @temp=@array.join(',');say @temp.split(','); # why not use this? 13:40
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
moritz pippo: yes, the split consumes way too much memory on my machine too
pippo moritz: this is annoying! 13:41
isBEKaml moritz: do you happen to know why this nqp build malfunctions? gist.github.com/anonymous/7262942 13:42
colomon is it just jvm? It seemed like the parrot version also timed out in the backlog...
pippo colomon: I only have jvm and niecza on my machine. 13:43
FROGGS tadzik / jaffa4: see github.com/tadzik/Shell-Command/pull/1 13:45
masak rj: say (^20_000).join(',')
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,…»
colomon hmmm, your 9:38 code seems to run on parrot rakudo in about 3-4 seconds
masak rj: say (^20_000).join(',').split(',')
camelia rakudo-jvm 882e33: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 13:46
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masak yeah, there's something rotten in the state of .split 13:46
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isBEKaml isBEKaml gives up on getting nqp to build 13:48
jaffa4 FROGGS: more about it? 13:49
moritz isBEKaml: where does this invocation come from?
isBEKaml moritz: I don't know - it happens when I try to build core.setting jar in stage1. 13:50
FROGGS jaffa4: this should fix the panda problem on windows, where it was unable to create a directory when installing a module
moritz isBEKaml: this does not look like typical output from make 13:51
isBEKaml moritz: no, that's not make. it's ant.
moritz isBEKaml: well, that's not how you build NPQ :-)
isBEKaml If you look at the comments there, I have tried reproducing that from the cmd prompt. using relative and absolute paths. 13:52
Both failed.
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isBEKaml moritz: I know. I can 13:52