buggable 🎺🎺🎺 It's time for the monthly Accidental /win Lottery 😍😍😍 We have 4 ballots submitted by 4 users! DRUM ROLL PLEASE!... 00:00
And the winning number is 42! Congratulations to lizmat! You win a can of WD40!
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Xliff_ Say I have a perl6 primative value (ie a Str, Num, Int and such). What's the easiest way to get that into pointer form for NativeCall? 01:16
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lindylex m: say "alongwordbeforeadot." ~~ / \w+ >> <!before '.'> /; 02:21
camelia Nil
lindylex say "alongwordbeforeadot." ~~ / \w+ <!before \w> <!before '.'> /;
evalable6 Nil
lindylex I think I found another bug in the regex. 02:22
Those two example should have given the output >> alongwordbeforeadot
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Xliff_ m: say "alongwordbeforeadot." ~~ / \w+ <?before '.'> /; 02:25
camelia 「alongwordbeforeadot」
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Xliff_ m: say "alongwordbeforeadot." ~~ / \w+ >> <?before '.'> /; 02:26
camelia 「alongwordbeforeadot」
Xliff_ m: say "alongwordbeforeadot." ~~ / \w+ <!before \w> <?before '.'> /;
camelia 「alongwordbeforeadot」
Xliff_ lindylex: Using <!before...> means NOT before. 02:27
lindylex Ok got it now right the exclamation means not.
Xliff_ : thanls 02:28
Xliff_ : thanks
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Xliff_ lindylex: no problem! 02:41
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Xliff_ Does anyone know of a way to watch what the perl6 compiler is doing as it compiles? 04:30
Is there a command line switch or environment variable that can be set? I used to know it, but I can't remember what it is.
jmerelo Xliff_: if there's one, it must be here github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Runn...mmand-line 04:57
Xliff_ jmerelo++ # Thanks! 05:03
jmerelo Xliff_: sure :-) 05:13
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Geth doc: 7f52d31463 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6
Eliminate implementation details from definition

The signatures in Rakudo do not match those in the documentation:
  github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e548....pm6#L1700
and the tests in roast
  github.com/perl6/roast/blob/2288d4...t-simple.t
do not test for returning a Seq, so the fact that they actually return a Seq must be considered an implementation detail with no place in the documentation.
05:35
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Str
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Geth doc: c454b70006 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6
Adapts lines to new definitions, adds examples

05:46
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Str
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jmerelo .tell AlexDaniel I'm working through this: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...09-28#l722 I guess anouncements will be done only during the Squashathon? 06:21
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
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Geth ecosystem: b810f06e48 | (JJ Merelo)++ | docs/Hacktoberfest.md
Adds hacktoberfest intro

06:44
jmerelo .tell Alexdaniel I have started a document, will try to finish it this morning with screenshots and all. Please check the draft, linked in the log above this, to see if it's OK 06:45
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to Alexdaniel.
buggable New CPAN upload: Getopt-Advance-1.1.1.tar.gz by ALOREN modules.perl6.org/dist/Getopt::Adva...pan:ALOREN 06:47
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Xliff_ m: say |<a b c> 08:17
camelia abc
Xliff_ m: say |<a b c>.^name
camelia List
Xliff_ m: say <a b c>.^name
camelia List
Xliff_ m: say ('a', 'b', 'c').^name
camelia List
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geekosaur m: say (|('a', 'b', 'c')).^name 08:21
camelia Slip
pmurias which online repl should I plug rakudo.js in? 08:37
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ZzZombo Sorry, what kind of plug you mean? 08:40
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pmurias ZzZombo: make it run Perl 6 code using rakudo.js 08:51
ZzZombo Did you try `repl.it`? A solid online REPL I'm fond of. 08:52
pmurias is that still open source? the seemed to have moved from a running stuff in the browser model to running code on their servers 08:55
ZzZombo Yes, as far as I recall. I read their news letters, none indicated changing anything, except offering paid "Hacker" plans, but you can still use it for free, and still open. 08:56
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pmurias they changed the model they use stuff for sure 08:58
they archived their old repo on github and there doesn't seem to be a new one on their github page
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AlexDaniel . 09:28
yoleaux 06:21Z <jmerelo> AlexDaniel: I'm working through this: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...09-28#l722 I guess anouncements will be done only during the Squashathon?
06:45Z <jmerelo> AlexDaniel: I have started a document, will try to finish it this morning with screenshots and all. Please check the draft, linked in the log above this, to see if it's OK
AlexDaniel “above” :)
pmurias how would copying dartpad.dartlang.org/ fit our REPLish needs? 09:39
timotimo you think maybe the ipython notebook could be changed to use an "in-process" kernel? 09:40
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pmurias timotimo: I would have to investigate, I'm not really a REPL kind of person I haven't ever used ipython 09:42
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timotimo ipython isn't too reply 09:42
it's more matlaby
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AlexDaniel aaaaaaarrrgghhh. Accidentally pressed F5 while I was writing a message in gmail. No, the message is still there, but the whole freaking interface changed. And the message textbox is no longer resizable /o\ 09:58
oh, there's a button to go back to “classic” version, good enough! 10:00
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AlexDaniel also, seems like it has never been resizable anyway. I guess the newer version just has everything bigger which made me want to resize :) 10:02
Ulti yeah I hate the new GMail interface 10:04
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pmurias timotimo: ipython seems like something that would have a lot more value then you average REPL 10:12
timotimo do you mean ipython or the jupyter notebook?
(for some reason i still called it ipython notebook up there, but they renamed it a couple of years ago)
pmurias isn't it the same thing under different names?
timotimo jupyter notebooks are big in Science
yeah, just a rename, but since there's kernels for billions of languages now, it'd be strange to keep calling it "ipython notebook" 10:13
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pmurias bending it to have it run fully in the browser to squeeze rakudo.js into it seems to be a lot more effort than just cloning dartpad 10:15
timotimo OK 10:16
pmurias putting node.js side rakudo.js seems a lot more doable but it's a different thing 10:17
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Xliff Oy. I've been trying to chat for minutes and didn't realize I wasn't identified. LOL! 10:22
Is there a way to check if a Supply has been tapped? 10:23
jast being identified is immaterial for that... everyone gets speaking permissions on a delay after joining
at least that's the way I think it's *supposed* to work... 10:24
Xliff Yeah, well I was on for minutes, and didn't get voice until I identified, and rejoined.
Was here @ 6:02 my time, didn't get voice until 6:22
At any rate, I've got an issue with 2018.09 that I wasn't experiencing with 2018.08 10:25
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Xliff Code was previously working, but now I get "Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0" 10:25
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Zoffix Xliff: if you keep talking without voice you are assumed to be a bot. 10:26
Xliff Code referred to has this signature: "multi method run (GTK::Application:D: )"
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Xliff Zoffix. Ah. 10:26
jast how? if you talk without voice no other client can even see that
oh, +z, never mind me
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Xliff OK. Time to reboot. BBIAS 10:28
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Xliff Looks to be a definite regression or change of behavior with 2018.09 10:45
pmurias_ how should our dartpad spin-off/clone be called? RakudoPad/6Pad/Perl6Pad?
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Xliff gist.github.com/Xliff/5ed649b319a4...1516ad8d7d 10:47
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AlexDaniel Xliff: what is that? Is it a module? I don't see it in the ecosystem 10:53
Xliff AlexDaniel: Isn't in the ecosystem, yet. 10:54
AlexDaniel Xliff: ok, what are the steps to reproduce? (including installation of dependencies and stuff like that)
Xliff Near as I can tell, it's the $a.run call, and this was JUST working until I rakudobrew'd
git clone github.com/Xliff/p6-GtkPlus.git 10:55
cd p6-GtkPlus.git; perl6 -Ilib t/08-textview.t
As far as dependencies....
A working installation of libgtk3 10:56
tison pmurias: we are going to porting perl6 to dart backend?
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tison hmm, maybe just use the js backend, know little about that 10:57
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pmurias tison: it will be for the js backend 11:02
tison: I'm just "borrowing" the dart-pad interface to have a "run it in the browser" page for rakudo.js 11:03
tison get it :-)
pmurias tison: I'm writing too many rakudo backends already, I don't need a third one ;) 11:04
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tison yes, that's why I am quite a bit surprise :P 11:06
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Xliff AlexDaniel: Looks like I got hit with exactly what Zoffix expected. 11:17
colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...09-28#l792
The problem is that his solution didn't work, either.
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AlexDaniel Xliff: use Data::Dump::Tree; in Builder.pm6 11:18
Xliff Commented out. Checking 11:19
No change.
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AlexDaniel Xliff: not saying it's an issue, just pointing out that it's a dependency that probably shouldn't be there :) 11:20
Xliff Oh. Yeah.
That was for debugging purposes.
It's safe to remove.
It looks like overriding method bless() is a no-no in 2018.09 11:21
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lizmat Xliff: could you verify that 74ca05f284f2e6668fe7 is not the cause ? 11:26
Xliff lizmat: Sure. One sec.
Is there a way to do that through rakudobrew? 11:27
lizmat not that I know of :-(
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timotimo i think you literally just "rakudobrew build whatever-sha1-is-the-parent-of-74ca05f284f2e6668fe7" 11:28
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tadzik perhaps `build moar <sha1>` 11:29
timotimo oh 11:30
tadzik probably best to ask the author..
Xliff Yes
timotimo perhaps
tadzik hmmm
timotimo yeah who is that?
tadzik I wonder if he knows though...
Xliff LOL
tadzik yes, it seems like it's build <impl> <ver> :P
impl being moar and ver being the thing passed to git-checkout 11:31
Xliff So the SHA I want is f989b26282f91c0ac2479d0ccd223454306d1bed
Rebuilding. :) 11:32
tadzik the top comment in bin/rakudobrew says "# I AM RAKUDOBREW. ALSO POSSIBLY SPARTACUS. OUTLOOK CLOUDY, ASK AGAIN LATER."
okay who wrote that
Xliff Then I go to 74ca05f284f2e6668fe7 and see if things break.
tadzik github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew/issues/56 lol 11:33
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tadzik mst: I'm sorry :D 11:33
Xliff ROFL 11:34
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grondilu m: say map { .² }, 1..5; 11:34
yoleaux 15 Sep 2018 17:06Z <thundergnat> grondilu: Any chance you could apply the outstanding pull requests to your Modular module? There are Rosetta code tasks that are broken because it won't install.
camelia (1 4 9 16 25)
grondilu "." can be used instead of "_" in a closure? TIL 11:35
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grondilu grondilu learnt about it while reading rosettacode.org/wiki/Calculating_th...f_e#Perl_6 11:35
Xliff m: say 1.² 11:36
camelia 1
Xliff m: say 2.²
camelia 4
grondilu say .²
evalable6 Use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context
0
in block <unit> at /tmp/UbGlvTRPFm line 1
grondilu m: say .²
camelia Use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context
0
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: $_ = 5; say .²
camelia 25
Xliff ^^ That
timotimo m: $_ = "hi"; .say
camelia hi
grondilu that's neat anyway 11:37
"." is only one character shorter than $_ but it looks better
Xliff m: say map { . + 1 }, 1..5; 11:38
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~
at <tmp>:1
------> say map { . + 1 }, 1..5;
Xliff m: say map { $_ + 1 }, 1..5; 11:39
camelia (2 3 4 5 6)
Xliff Not quite as usuable as you might think. :/
lizmat: Also fails in f989b26282f91c0ac2479d0ccd223454306d1bed
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lizmat then I do not have any further direction for investigation atm 11:41
Xliff Thanks for the help. 11:42
Still looks like the problem is in overriding method bless.
I take out the override and it goes away. 11:43
The idea is to have code that is only run ONCE per object initialization. Can't do that in BUILD or TWEAK.
Coz... subclassing.
masak pmurias: 6pad! <3 11:44
Xliff Could do it in method new().... if there were only one.
masak Xliff: wait, BUILD only runs once per object initialization, no?
Xliff masak: Yes... but subclassing 11:45
masak m: class B { submethod BUILD { say "B's BUILD" } }; class C is B { submethod BUILD { say "C's BUILD" } }; C.new
camelia B's BUILD
C's BUILD
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Xliff See? 11:45
masak Xliff: I don't see the problem...?
pmurias: 6pad! <3
Geth doc: 891e49386d | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/packages.pod6
Fixing issue raised by @rahogaboom in email list. :+1:

synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/packages
Xliff masak: I do NOT want the code to run more than ONCE.
masak Xliff: it... doesn't? 11:46
Xliff Your example runs two instances of BUILD.
masak Xliff: the BUILD in B runs once and the BUILD in C runs once.
Xliff Yes.
masak that's correct, because my C instance is also a B instance
Xliff I know.
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tadzik so you want your BUILD to not be a submethod? 11:46
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Xliff And the code I want to run should happen AFTER all of the BUILD calls are made. 11:46
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Xliff but before bless exits. Hence why I wanted to override bless. 11:47
masak usually when I'm banging my head against the OO system, I take a step back and wonder if I'm doing things in the right way
tadzik while we're at it, I recently had a feeling that perhaps the P6/Moo(se) OOP syntax encourages bad OO practices
I know that it does in me, and life taught me that I'm usually not special :)
masak tadzik: I'd love to see a longer explanation of that
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tadzik masak: ah, take a seat :) 11:48
Xliff masak: Trust me. I took that step back.
masak tadzik: (will read asynchronously, as I'm currently teaching)
Xliff: ...but still, your conclusion was "I want to override .bless"? :P
Xliff If I can override new() why not bless()? 11:49
:P # masak
tadzik so, it's been a while since my first C++ books taught me that classes are just structs with functions, and nowadays I tend to think of object as the OG OO masters designed them: as entities that *do* things, are only accidentally happen to be data structures sometimes
now I can feel smug and intelligent people agree with me so I fell like it's I'm on the right track with these
so objects are those things that *do* things, and the things they do also strive to keep the object's state mostly hidden and mostly correct 11:50
masak Xliff: ...because .bless is at a deeper level of the OO system
Xliff: it's not "can't" so much as "probably shouldn't" 11:51
tadzik so that their data-structure properites are merely a useful addition to their core idea, rather than being the core idea itself
now, BUILD and bless kind of ties into that, and so is the discussion you're having
masak tadzik: you're expressing "The Mystical View" of OO, by the way.
Xliff I agree with "Probably shouldn't" but bless() is just a method, no?
masak (there's also "The Scandinavian View" and "The Software Engineering View") 11:52
Xliff I don't see anything in the docs saying that "This should not be done"
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masak Xliff: you misunderstand 11:52
tison new/bless/BUILD/TWEAK
tadzik before TWEAK was a thing I remember having arguments here with TimToady, and at some point implementing a custom AFTERPARTY method into rakudo so that I can do things when the object is being initialized
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masak Xliff: I'm not setting up a challenge. and you're right that the documentation does not discourage you from overriding .bless 11:52
tadzik the reason I wanted to do this was sound in retrospect: objects should care about correctness of their state, and doing that as they're being created is perhaps the most important part of it all 11:53
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squashable6 Webhook for perl6/whateverable is now active! Practicality beats purity. 11:53
tison too many if want to know the whole construct process
masak Xliff: it's just a matter of common sense -- it's deeper down in the OO system, so all other things equal, you'd be less wont to override it
tadzik in other words: "constructor" is of upmost importantce in an object, imho
Xliff m: class B { submethod TWEAK { say "B's TWEAK" } }; class C is B { submethod TWEAK { say "C's TWEAK" } }; C.new
camelia B's TWEAK
C's TWEAK
tadzik now the reason why I fought long battles with BUILD, AFTERPARTY and friends is because I didn't want to overload the actual constructor as I should
Xliff masak: But you still haven't said anything meaning that "I shouldn't be able to"
masak tadzik: agree insofar as invariants are important 11:54
tadzik but the reason why I didn't want to do that is because it was *easier* that way
Xliff masak: Just that it should happen rarely.
masak Xliff: that is what I'm saying
tadzik one of the selling points of Moose for me back in the day was "you don't have to write a constructor and this stupid bless() thing that confuses you, just declare your attributes"
masak Xliff: and I'm implying that your mistake *might be* that think you're in a rare situation
Xliff masak: Note that both BUILD and TWEAK run as expected.
tadzik Perl 6 does the same, obviously
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Xliff But I don't want to repeatedly run this code in that manner. And those mechanisms you are touting don't let me do that. 11:55
In fact, you are saying that Perl6 is FIGHTING me on that.
I know what I want to do and I'm trying to find the best way to do it. I understand you may think that I'm NOT in this situation.
tadzik so the syntax of the language I used made it all very attribute-centric: object creation was pushed aside as something You Shouldn't Need To Do, and the data structures associated with an object has become not only the core part of creating them, but also a defining part of their interface!
Xliff But after careful analysis.. I AM.
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Xliff And listen: this used to work!! 11:56
As recently as 2018.08
tison tadzik: sound like case object in Scala or data class in Kotlin
tadzik in a way, `has` and the autogenerated new() has lured me away from proper OO and back into the days of "I am 12 and C++ is just C with classes"
Xliff So imagine this from the point of view of the end-freaking-user.
Working code. No change. Upgrade Perl. Now broken.