buggable 🎺🎺🎺 It's time for the monthly Accidental /win Lottery 😍😍😍 We have 2 ballots submitted by 2 users! DRUM ROLL PLEASE!... 00:00
And the winning number is 10! Congratulations to samcv, nine! You win a roll of duck tape!
samcv yay. i've never won before
do i have to give a speech
El_Che sound good to me 00:01
:)
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raschipi I said in the survey I had 2018.05 but I forgot I just had upgraded to 2018.06 00:07
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benjikun raschipi: That's okay 00:08
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Israel ? 00:11
Anybody here?
thowe hi
I'm here, but I'm no help.
Israel hey
Ok, lol
AlexDaniel I'm here, I'm sometimes help :)
thowe Most Perl people are super experts at everything... I'm just a hobbiest. 00:12
Israel I need t know more about Perl6, if anyone can help
I am a hobbiest too
thowe Sure!
I'll try.
Israel Ok
AlexDaniel samcv: but who won? you or nine? :) 00:14
thowe The REPL makes things fun and helps with the learning.
raschipi Just stick around and listen and you'll bea 'super expert' in no time.
Israel okay 00:15
where i can learn more about this language? 00:16
thowe Well, do you like books or online resources or both?
raschipi There's a couple of books, introductory texts online...
thowe I have a book called "Perl 6 Fundamentals" which I have liked so far. 00:17
Israel I have many books of Perl, but Perl6...
"Perl 6 Fundamentals" - expensive?
thowe Also, a new book about learning Perl6 is about to come out from O'Reilly
I'm not sure, I seem to recall getting it during a price reduction.
Israel, What country are you in? 00:18
raschipi If you know Perl 5, you might want to have a look here: docs.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell
Israel Brazil 00:19
Brazilian Federal Republic***
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Israel raschipi - thanks 00:20
thowe Looks like the paperback is about $20 US from Amazon. I'm not sure how that translates to Brazilian currency.
raschipi Seja bem vindo, Israel
Israel I can read in English, and $20 is about 60 brazilian coins 00:21
So it's fine
thowe Coins? That's what it is called? 00:22
AlexDaniel Israel: fwiw there are many short introductions to perl 6, like learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/
raschipi Israel: importação de livros é isento de imposto, se te cobrarem, reclame.
Israel raschipi: I've already released some books from the USA, never charged taxes 00:23
thowe - We call brazilian Real
raschipi Tax over "I'm not sure what this is" is 100%, so they sometimes tax books when they shouldn't. You need to complain to get the money back.
thowe Ah, OK
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Israel Ok 00:24
thowe this is a free download: greenteapress.com/wp/think-perl-6/ 00:25
Israel Thanks for all guys, realy helped me
raschipi Stick around
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Israel I will be 00:26
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raschipi He didn't stick around. 01:09
thowe Ah well. 01:10
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benjikun raschipi: Hopefully he returns 01:37
buggable New CPAN upload: IP-Random-0.0.8.tar.gz by JMASLAK modules.perl6.org/dist/IP::Random:cpan:JMASLAK 01:44
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Zoffix .tell MasterDuke did some digging into the `multi z(42)` thing. Looks like the perf rewrite works fine in `sub`s, but in `multi`es, stuff becomes 10x slower and I think just drowns out the improvement. Filed as R#2002 03:22
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to MasterDuke.
30 Jun 2018 23:16Z <benjikun> Zoffix: Sorry, was asleep. Yeah this round's survey is complete, I was going to create charts for each question, but I think the google form results will do fine for now.
Zoffix (I mean, 10x slower for some reason, not because of my opt. The issue existed before my stuff) 03:24
even before The Christmas 03:26
R#2002 03:29
hack is ded again
AlexDaniel but at least RT is back up! 03:33
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Zoffix I rather have hack :P 03:33
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Zoffix R#2002 03:33
synopsebot R#2002 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2002 [perf] `where` in single `multi` vs. `sub` is 10x slower
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AlexDaniel RT#125974 RT#128693 RT#132219 03:35
synopsebot RT#125974 [new]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=125974 [PERF] Closures in regex cost a lot of CPU cycles.
RT#128693 [new]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128693 [PERF] Regex optimizer on \s+$ is "dumb as bricks"
RT#132219 [new]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132219 [@LARRY] [REGEX] non-ratchet right-hand branch of `||` causes backtracking into the alternation
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raschipi Zoffix RT is just bad news anyway. 03:47
AlexDaniel ? 03:52
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Tison \o 04:37
I was ask that what's new 6.d would bring to, and I introduced github.com/perl6/6.d-prep, but think that it would be better if there is a brief talk/essay to announce 6.d 04:40
my folks are excited to hear that 6.d will be released in Nov. :) 04:41
raschipi Will it?
geekosaur I thought that hadn;t been decided yet
raschipi I didn't hear anything about it either. 04:43
Tison: but don't worry, everyone will hear extensively about 6.d way before it comes out. 04:46
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Zoffix Tison: there aren't yet any changelog notes for 6.d and the majority of the spec changes still need to be reviewed. Pointing people to 6.d-prep isn't a good idea: that's a repo for core devs and will just confuse users. The vast majority of 6.d stuff is already available in 6.c, so it's not like we're keeping some secret hidden feature under the covers. The release will just make all these features officially 04:57
part of the language and subject to much stronger compatibility support
and will put in use the features that currently requre `use v6.d.PREVIEW` 04:59
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Geth doc: f67de5778e | (JJ Merelo)++ | CONTRIBUTING.md
Some guidelines about introducing new features closes #2133

07:10
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Geth doc/master: 5 commits pushed by (JJ Merelo)++ 09:48
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jmerelo More stuff from the survey: Community score vs. documentation score github.com/perl6/p6survey/blob/mas...munity.png 11:34
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jmerelo In general, scores are lower for doc than community, but those giving high score to community, in general, give a good score to documentation. 11:37
I'm kinda worried, however, by those giving 9 or 10 to the community and failing documentation. 11:38
Geth doc: cec362ec4f | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6
wrap long lines, fix typo

synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/exceptions
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tbrowder_ jmerelo: maybe a new survey just on documentation? 11:41
jmerelo This is interesting raw.githubusercontent.com/perl6/p6...oxplot.png 11:44
Most people giving a low score to documentation, _also_ give a low score to the community
lizmat judging from reddit comments, that is to be expected :-(
jmerelo tbrowder_: I have more than enough analyzing data in this survey. I don't want people to get tired of surveys...
lizmat: yep. Still, ~ 7 is kind of low. There's room for improvement. 11:46
tbrowder_ i for one would like to see the language part organized into several groupings. the alphabetical order is somtimes unhelpful.
jmerelo tbrowder_: It's sometimes difficult to navigate. But the problem is that major changes like that one simply don't happen. 11:47
tbrowder_: but if you open an issue I'll be giving it some attention. It's a good suggestion.
tbrowder_ if/when another survey is done, maybe ask for specifics if the choice rating is below X. 11:48
jmerelo tbrowder_: I mean, not more than other issues, but it's always good to have those opinions just in case some rearrangement happens.
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tbrowder_ even though i would like to see some categories in the lnguage docs, i’m not sure what they should be, and getting consensus might be difficult. 12:08
i haven’t looked at htmlify since your work started, but i imagine creating categories might be a little easier now, thanks to your efforts. 12:10
sacomo hi all 12:15
pmurias sacomo: hi 12:16
sacomo hello
is there a way to see all of the modules that are available as symbol references from inside a module? for example, can we print a list of modules (JSON::Fast, Foo, Bar, Something::Special) that are either available on the system, or via lib? 12:19
lizmat that would be $*REPO introspection, I guess
ugexe or nine would probably know 12:20
Repository handling is sadly underdocumented atm
sacomo lizmat: thanks, I will mess around with $*REPO 12:22
tbrowder_ speaking of searching modules, any way to search by author on our modules page? 12:23
El_Che modules.perl6.org/search/?q=author...22JNTHN%22 12:25
modules.perl6.org/search/?q=author:"JNTHN" 12:26
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mscha How can I declare a nested integer hash, i.e. %foo{42}{21} == 63? 12:48
m: my %foo{Int}; %foo{42} //= my %{Int}; %foo{42}{21} = 63; dd %foo; # This doesn't work, obviously
camelia Hash[Any,Int] %foo = (my Any %{Int} = 42 => $(my Any %{Int} = 21 => 63))
mscha m: my %foo{Int}; %foo{42} //= my Int %{Int}; %foo{42}{21} = 63; dd %foo; # This is a workaround, but annoying. 12:49
camelia Hash[Any,Int] %foo = (my Any %{Int} = 42 => $(my Int %{Int} = 21 => 63))
mscha Ignore my first "this doesn't work"...
m: my %foo{Int}; %foo{42}{21} = 63; dd %foo; # This doesn't work, obviously
camelia Hash[Any,Int] %foo = (my Any %{Int} = 42 => ${"21" => 63})
El_Che mscha: I most forgo strong typing with nested stuff 12:55
mscha: I am under the impressiong typing is rather flat on perl6, but I am sure people will correct me if wrong
lizmat mscha: you're asking a Hash to take a Hash *and* an Int as values ? 12:56
El_Che Nesting stuff is in my view something typical of dynamic non-strongly type languages 12:59
in other languages you'd use Objects or Structs to keep that kind of data 13:00
imho
Geth doc: tbrowder self-assigned add caption info to pod tables discussion github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2134
3ea8e5fa94 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/tables.pod6

13:05
mscha lizmat: I want a hash of hashes of ints. 13:08
El_Che: but if I forgo strong typing, Rakudo changes my Ints to Strs. Not a disaster with Ints, but for instance with Rats that can cause bugs. 13:10
El_Che you can type the values, no?
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mscha El_Che: But how do I type the values of the main hash as Int %{Int}? 13:11
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Bowlslaw hello 13:11
good morning everyone 13:12
mscha m: my Int %{Int} %foo{Int}; # doesn't work
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
foo used at line 1
Bowlslaw You guys have a totalitarian moderator, Mithaldu, on r/perl who bans and mutes people for engaging in harmless discussions in which he disagrees, over joke posts 13:14
El_Che mscha: I see 13:15
m: my Hash[Int] %h; my %h2 = foo => 2; %h<foo> = %h2
camelia Type check failed in assignment to %h; expected Hash[Int] but got Hash (${:foo(2)})
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat Bowlslaw: I think this is the wrong place to complain about that, taking it up with the other moderators on r/perl would be better, I think 13:16
Bowlslaw That's impossible. 13:17
I tried, but I don't know where else to go.
lizmat you could also try #perl on irc.perl.org 13:19
Bowlslaw When I tried to appeal, I literally said, "I don't think I deserve to be banned explanation?" and he said, "you are banned and muted now"
alrighty...thanks. 13:20
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pmurias Bowlslaw: this is a Perl 6 channel so if anything you should be complaining about r/perl6 here ;) 13:21
El_Che pmurias: nothing is as simple as it looks :)
Bowlslaw I Know, but r/perl is advertised as both Perl 5 and Perl 6 13:23
"The Perl Programming Language, including both Perl 5 and Perl 6."
El_Che Bowlslaw: it is 13:24
let's see if their are known admins
lizmat Bowlslaw: I assume it's over this? www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/8uh...s_in_perl/ 13:26
www.reddit.com/user/bowlslaw doesn't read too positive :-( 13:27
Bowlslaw yep 13:28
My history is irrelevant
what IS relevant is the current post there
which is not even close to being ban worthy with the only explanation being, "keep your right-wing stuff elsewhere" or whatever
hahainternet your history surely isn't irrelevant 13:30
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Bowlslaw In the context of this curernt situation, it is entirely irrelevant, unless yo uare simply looking for an excuse to ban someone. 13:32
hahainternet if your history provides that 'excuse', then it isn't irrelevant
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lizmat Bowlslaw: again, I don't this is the place for this discussion, as I think very few people on this channel can actually do something about the situation 13:33
Bowlslaw alright
hahainternet: and no, that is called an "ad hominem", something you should be too smart to fall for
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lizmat *sigh* 13:33
hahainternet why do people who are always offensive never understand what "ad hominem" means
a mystery to me 13:34
pmurias Bowlslaw: an ad hominem is a valid argument when the person who is being attacked is the subject of the argument 13:37
hahainternet pmurias: he left lol, but even then his history cannot possibly be an ad hominem, it would be like a person on trial insisting the judge should not look at his criminal record before sentencing him 13:45
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/tables
El_Che duscussing meme is a can of worms 13:49
as is reddit, it seems
pmurias pmurias tries to keep his technical activities and his trolling/internet vitriol separate 13:50
El_Che pmurias: does pmurias have an online evil twin? :) 13:52
I think the only time I posted something on reddit was in a discussion started by lizmat
Geth doc: 926e0f2834 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/tables.pod6
add info on adding a table caption

13:53
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/tables
El_Che haven't connected since then
reddit looks too much like online comments on newspapers 13:54
lizmat stmuk: pl6anet.org seems irresponsive 13:56
*unresponsive 13:57
Geth doc: 1df6d75505 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/tables.pod6
warn about deprecated use of config hash for captions

14:05
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/tables
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Geth doc: 64cb6677a4 | (Sam S)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Hash.pod6
fix typo

English is not French... :P
14:11
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Hash
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Xliff \o 14:24
Happy Sunday!
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Bowlslaw "No such method 'prase' for invocant of type 'DOM::Tiny'" praise the DOM ! 14:48
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Xliff BowlSlaw: Can you bug that? 15:00
Or is that in your code? /o\
Is there a beautify for gist output anywhere? 15:07
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tbrowder_ tyil: you around? 15:18
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tyil tbrowder_: hi 15:21
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tbrowder_ tyil: hi. have you had a chance to try the =input/=output pod blocks yet? 15:31
tyil tbrowder_: I have not, I'll do it right away 15:35
tbrowder_: in the test program, the IO blocks are rendering just like code blocks now (with regards to newlines and whitespace) 15:37
with This is Rakudo version 2018.06-32-g0990945dc built on MoarVM version 2018.06-34-g411f73fdc
and if I'm not mistaken, this month gets a new star release as well, so it's going to be in my default perl6 as well 15:38
thanks for the fix, tbrowder_ :>
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tbrowder_ you’re welcome—glad i could help, and thanks for finding the problem! 15:42
smls I wrote a Perl 6 module: github.com/smls/perl6-LinkedHash 15:44
Feedback welcome, especially about the stuff in the TODO section of the readme.
tbrowder_ smls: that sounds great! is it in cpan yet? 15:47
lizmat smls: why %!entries{$key}:exists; in EXISTS-KEY, why not just %!entries.EXISTS-KEY($key) ?
smls tbrowder_: Not yet.
lizmat: Heh, good point. 15:48
lizmat same for DELETE-KEY
saves you 1 level of indirection (at least)
Xliff Does anyone know the best way to add a cookie to the Cro::HTTP::Client::CookieJar class? 15:57
If not, who can I ask?
Actually. That should read "add a cookie to an instance of Cro::HTTP::Client::CookieJar" 15:58
sena_kun Xliff, jnthn or me. Let's see if I can help you...
Xliff sena_kun!! ^^
How goes?
sena_kun: Here's the tricky part... I can add from a response object, but I need a Cro::Uri. However I don't know how I would do that properly. I could specify the actual root dir of the server, but that would require building. 15:59
ALSO! I have a related question to ask when you have a spare minute.
sena_kun Xliff, I don't see obvious way to do that right now, yet I believe you can open an issue and we'll work on it. 16:00
Xliff Would you accept a PR? :)
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Xliff BTW-- I did fix a minor issue. 16:00
Oh! Yeah, someone merged. 16:01
sena_kun Design-wise things go into jnthn's field I believe, but you can always send a PR and it will be considered.
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sena_kun It was me(who merged it), thanks again for your contribution. :) 16:01
Xliff yw! 16:02
sena_kun As for $uri needed, let's see... 16:03
Xliff So yea, the related question was asking about a way to add a cookie directly to the cookie jar, so that's covered.
lizmat Xliff: there's also a #cro channel
Xliff Oh! My bad! 16:04
lizmat but I guess sena_kun would have helped you there as well :-)
Xliff Thanks, liz
lizmat fwiw, I wasn't saying that it was wrong to ask it here, but simply point out that there is a channel with better signal/noise ratio wrt to Cro questions :-) 16:05
Xliff lizmat++ # Message received as intended. ;) 16:06
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Xliff sena_kun: I know you will need to run this by jnthn, so I will open an issue, but would it be a bad thing to just allow an add-cookie method to Cro::HTTP::Client::CookieJar? 16:21
lizmat Xliff: is there a way to create a cookie jar separately ? 16:25
sena_kun Xliff, well, the thing is CookieJar operates on CookieState rather than raw Cookie objects, so you need to either go with a cumbersome add method(not so bad) or expose CookieState(arguably worse). Personally, I don't see anything _too bad_ with that, but yet again, it is up to jnthn as I may miss something. 16:28
Xliff sena_kun: Yeah. I'm looking at it now. I would basically put a new cookie in a CookieState and add it to the jar. 16:30
I've submitted the issue for discussion.
sena_kun Xliff++ 16:31
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lizmat afk& 16:33
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stmuk lizmat: can't see a problem now. Maybe a glitch in the matrix? 16:38
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jmerelo o/ 16:39
Geth doc: 7f00a2c76f | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/modules-core.pod6
Eliminates the sentence about `$*REPO`

Refs #502
16:51
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/modules-core
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Geth doc: 9fd2e7767f | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
Adds definition of repository in Rakudo/Perl 6 context

This is ripped of off @jnhtn's
  github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...agement.md
with the idea of contributing towards #502 (TTBOMK, of course).
17:17
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
doc: fc24fafac0 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
Adds compilation unit/compunit to the glossary

It was missing so far, with compunit pointing to the definition of several compilation units. Once again, @jnthn document is essential, and definition sentence basically copypasted from there. Refs #502.
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El_Che jmerelo: whut? 17:40
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: are you sure abou $?… vs $*… ? These are different 17:41
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: you mean the Rakudo pull request? 17:42
AlexDaniel yea
jmerelo m: say $?REPO;
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$?REPO' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> say $?REPO;
jmerelo m: say $*REPO;
camelia inst#/home/camelia/.perl6
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jmerelo m: use lib </usr/lib>; say $?REPO; 17:43
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$?REPO' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> use lib </usr/lib>; say $?REPO;