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neuromu hi everyone. i'm sure this is common knowledge already, but i'm new to pugs and perl6. make smoke is not creating a smoke.html with latest revision from svn. 00:29
I get an error referencing YAML in the perl distribution I'm using, something about a malformed UTF-8 char. 00:31
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TimToady let me guess, you're running 5.10 like me, 'cuz I get the same error 00:39
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kst dlocaus: Um, I think you mean "throttle". 00:47
dlocaus: Never mind, I just realized I'm responding to something from about 3 hours ago. 00:48
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neuromu 5.8.8 00:50
Is there still a need for more help on developing perl 6/pugs? 00:55
if so, i'd really like to help, i've been in awe of this project watching from the outside off and on for about a year and a half now 00:57
my email is [email@hidden.address]
Tene neuromu: kp6 and parrot are where the most is happening right now. :) 00:59
neuromu Tene: thanks. Is there a plan to write a C implementation for Perl 6? 01:02
Or is that Parrot... 01:03
Tene neuromu: That's Parrot.
[particle] neuromu: we can start by giving you a pugs commit bit, so i've sent you an invitation
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neuromu [particle] -> thank you. 01:04
[particle] neuromu: there's parrot, a c-based vm for perl6 and other dynamic languages, and there's yap6 (sp?) which is a c port of fglock's kp6 (kindaperl 6)
those are the two c-based implementations underway 01:05
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[particle] neuromu: typically new committers add their name to CREDITS to test out their bit 01:11
neuromu I can't seem to find the yap6 description anywhere...
[particle] look under the v6/ dir
i've been away for a month, so i don't know the latest info
if you're interested in c programming, parrot could use your help 01:12
TimToady s/CREDITS/AUTHORS/ # a forgivable slip twixt parrot and pugs 01:13
[particle] ah, thanks
neuromu heck yeah im interested in c programming 01:14
so add my name to AUTHORS?
TimToady *nod* 01:15
pugs_svn r18985 | neuromu++ | Added name to AUTHORS 01:21
neuromu done
Tene neuromu: irc.perl.org #parrot is the main parrot channel 01:27
pugs_svn r18986 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] allow both List and Array in the AST 01:28
[particle] we're on #parrot now looking at what seems to be a bug involving ccache :/
[particle] heads off to soccer with cheese 01:29
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neuromu I'm sorry, one last question. So out of the 3 projects pugs, parrot, and yap6, the project with the most need for developers is parrot? 02:35
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araujo neuromu, all of them i think 04:07
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PerlJam "most need of developers"? 07:01
spinclad pugs *most* needs developers, to revive it ... a new batch of lambdacamels, new OO model, new AST, interface with KP6 and NQP ... 07:03
the others are active and can best *use* developers right off. 07:04
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pugs_svn r18987 | pmurias++ | referenced misc/grammar_17_15_bug_ilustration.t - in the revelant TODO item 08:48
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Aankh|Clone Ugh. I can't believe the "xml and perl 6" thread is still going strong, and with a completely different topic now. 10:31
moritz_ I think the "core" topic has to be discussed once a year to stay fresh in everybody's mind ;) 10:32
Aankh|Clone Hehe.
Yay, my much delayed lunch is finally here. 10:34
Oh, whoops.
10:34 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``
Aankhen`` That's better. 10:34
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pugs_svn r18988 | fglock++ | [kp6] cleanups 11:11
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pugs_svn r18989 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] updated image 11:27
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pugs_svn r18990 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] some fixes in Match.pm 12:04
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pmurias fglock: why is Perl5::Match used instead of Perl6::Match? 12:12
fglock pmurias: because I'm using the perl5rx backend, which is Perl 5 12:13
lib5regex/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Match.pm 12:14
pugs_svn r18991 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5] MOP - improved the default ".perl" a bit 12:18
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fglock there is some problem with the Object.perl attribute list when running t-bootstrap/02-grammar.t - attributes don't show up 12:23
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pmurias fglock: looking 12:28
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fglock Val::Int.new() should be: Val::Int.new(int => ...) 12:30
pmurias *** Could not load runtime class Range: Can't locate KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Range.pm
fglock are you running this? perl t-bootstrap/02-grammar.t 12:31
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pmurias yes 12:32
fglock: the test continues to run
fglock pmurias: fixed
pugs_svn r18992 | fglock++ | [kp6-kp6] added KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Range.pm 12:33
damianc hello 12:34
moritz_ hi damianc, hi all ;)
damianc hi moritz_!
fglock hi
moritz_ how do I build and test kp6-kp6? 12:35
I dimly remeber it's some env variable
fglock KP6_TARGET=KP6-BOOT perl Makefile.PL
moritz_ ah, I see... it's even documented ;) 12:36
fglock but it's pre-built
moritz_ and how to run the test suite? 12:38
fglock it can't run the normal tests yet, but you can run things in 'perl t-bootstrap/..." 12:40
moritz_ ah, they are perl5 scripts
fglock still debugging the grammar 12:41
but this almost works: perl -I compiled/perl5-kp6-kp6/lib script/kp6-kp6.pl <<< ' 1 '
see src-script/kp6-kp6.pl 12:42
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pmurias fglock: this error also confuses me 12:45
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fglock pmurias: you mean the attributes problem? 12:47
pmurias yes
fglock: the attribiute isn't added to the class 12:51
vim is sloow on large file :( 12:52
fglock I'm adding a .HOW.attributes method, to help debugging
pmurias fglock: did you load KindaPerl6::Ast? 12:53
fglock looking :) 12:54
pmurias it works if i add "use KindaPerl6::Ast"
fglock pmurias: thanks - it worked :) 12:55
pmurias is supposed to be debugging something else right now& 12:57
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pugs_svn r18993 | fglock++ | [kp6] MOP - added Class.get_attributes() 13:05
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pmurias fglock: isn't it speced to be an .attributes method? 13:10
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fglock pmurias: hmm - I didn't look 13:11
moritz_ pugs: <foo bar>.HOW.methods
pmurias S12
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Class: "&methods"␤ at /tmp/KKjmqYIbKq line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤]
moritz_ pugs: <foo bar>.HOW
exp_evalbot RESULT[\Class.new(("is" => ("Lazy",)), ("name" => "Array"))␤]
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moritz_ pugs: <foo bar>.HOW.attributes 13:12
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Class: "&attributes"␤ at /tmp/dcLwNcGz0W line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤]
moritz_ it's .attributes according to S12, yes 13:13
"The .attributes method returns a list of attribute descriptors that have traits like these"
pugs_svn r18994 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5] improved Object.perl
pmurias Perl6::Attribute alread exists
* already
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fglock kp6: class X { has $.x }; my $x = X.new(x=>3); say $x.perl 13:18
exp_evalbot r18994: OUTPUT[Out of memory!␤]
pugs_svn r18995 | fglock++ | [kp6] recompiled 13:19
fglock kp6: class X { has $.x }; my $x = X.new(x=>3); say $x.perl 13:20
exp_evalbot r18994: OUTPUT[Out of memory!␤]
fglock lunch & 13:21
moritz_ looks up evalbot's memory limit
80MB/100MB 13:22
pugs_svn r18996 | moritz++ | [evalbot] increased memory limit 13:23
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moritz_ kp6: class X { has $.x }; my $x = X.new(x=>3); say $x.perl 13:23
exp_evalbot r18995: OUTPUT[X.new(x => 3)␤]
pmurias moritz_: it's ?/? ?
moritz_ pmurias: RLIMIT_VMEM takes two numbers, I don't know exactly what they mean 13:25
from BSD::Resource, that is
I've bumped them to 180MB / 200MB, now it works ;)
pmurias moritz_: thanks
masak a bit unsettling that instantiating a class takes 180 MB... :) 13:26
moritz_ masak: you know what they say about premature optimization... ;) 13:27
and there has to be a reason for my laptop having 3GB ram ;) 13:28
masak heh
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moritz_ is there a separate hash context in Perl 6? 13:45
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pugs_svn r18997 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5] fix last commits (.attributes was already there) 15:05
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pugs_svn r18998 | pmurias++ | [kp6] the begining of a perl6 version of the test 16:13
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Juerd agentzh.org/misc/tracer/digits/index.html 16:51
Very impressive!
lambdabot Title: Test
Juerd agentzh++
masak yes, that one is very cool
agentzh++
Juerd Some perl -Mre=debug alike output would be cool too 16:52
I know that a lot of work is being done on Perl 6, but the things that I can *see* (e.g. in a browser) always impress me most. 16:53
TimToady moritz_: there isn't really a hash context; pairs don't decide how to behave until they get bound or assigned, so list context generally suffices (of course there's a referential context that expects a hash object/role, but that's just a type) 16:57
moritz_ TimToady: ok, thanks
the question came up on #perlde, someone sugested a DBI like interface with a magic "fetch" method 16:58
where %a = $sth->fetch returns a hash, @a = $sth->fetch a list, and $a = $sth->fetch an array ref
and afaict the first two can't be distinguished in perl 5 16:59
Tene TimToady: There's concern expressed in the log of the phone conference about your hardware. You need new hardware? 17:00
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TimToady Tene: just my laptop is starting to go gimpy in spots, none of which are quite showstopping, like the cd reader keeps ejecting by itself. :) 17:04
Tene Heh. Mine does that too.
rgs TimToady: I've that question about ~~ in Perl 5 17:05
just to be sure
before we're stuck with it forever
TimToady and I've got a bizillion messages saying hub 1-0:1.0: over-current change on port 3
Juerd moritz_: Why would $a = $sth->fetch do an arrayref, not a hashref? And why are you calling it a ref? :)
TimToady and the space bar doesn't work some of the time when I push it with my right thumb
Tene USB on my laptop is too flaky to use at high-speed, so I always rmmod ehci_hcd when I need to use it. 17:06
TimToady rgs: what's the Q?
rgs have you tried compressed air ? (for the laptop)
and the real question is : @a ~~ %h means that at least one element of @a is a key in %h ?
(as opposed as "all elements of @a")
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Tene TimToady: You also have tendonitis issues or some such, yes? 17:07
moritz_ Juerd: convenience ;)
TimToady S03 sez: 17:08
Array Hash hash slice existence X.contains(any @$_)
rgs yup
moritz_ which means "one common item", right?
that is, "at least one common item"
rgs that's what I think 17:09
but I'm not an expert in exegesis
moritz_ TimToady: Hash has no method "contains", according to S29, so it must be some kind of meta syntax
TimToady yes, only one item needs to match
rgs thanks! then all is fine in P5.
TimToady and .contains is a key match 17:10
not a val match
P6 kind of views hashes as sets with an associated piece of data called the value 17:11
Tene: yeah, my shoulder biceps tendons don't like to be used quite as much as I use 'em. 17:13
and I've been having trouble sleeping because of it, which greatly reduces my productivity
but I think I'm getting better, except when I don't think that...
Tene TimToady: want I should buy you a nicer external keyboard? Christmas time and all.
TimToady doesn't seem to correlate with keyboard use, more with heavy lifting and pushing the car door open and such 17:14
and I've got lots of keyboards sitting around :) 17:15
Tene I figured that was probably the case, but most of my spare keyboards are spare because they're a pain to type on. 17:16
Seems to be a common attribute of spare keyboards. ;)
TimToady most of mine are spare because the new computer came with a new one, and with four kids you end up with lots of new computers periodically
and keyboards are the easiest thing to scavenge from an old computer 17:17
[particle1 at least you have other people to do the heavy lifting for perl 6
TimToady sure, but that's kind of like ants trying to decide which way to push the huge crumb :) 17:18
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Tene Work threw more money at me recently, and hardware is an easy donation. 17:20
[particle] how 'bout a right-handed dvorak keyboard 17:21
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TimToady hmm, my sister-in-law just had new hardware installed in her shoulder... 17:22
Tene bbl 17:23
[particle] i can get you the joint itself at wholesale, but i can't get you a discount on labor
TimToady can you do it on a volunteer basis?
I'll bet TPF would give you a tax writeoff for it... 17:24
[particle] tempting
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[particle] besides, what could happen? 17:25
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dlocaus hi! 17:32
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moritz_ hola! 17:33
araujo hola! 17:40
dlocaus :) 17:43
pugs_svn r18999 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5rx] Match.to was not set inside a code-block 17:45
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moritz_ perl t-bootstrap/02-grammar.t 17:47
Can't locate KindaPerl6/AST.pm in @INC
find -name AST.pm|wc -l
0
fglock moritz_: fixing
hmm - looks ok, here 17:48
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moritz_ fglock: where is your AST.pm? 17:50
fglock t-bootstrap uses this one: svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPe...rl6/Ast.pm 17:51
lambdabot tinyurl.com/3d3sas
moritz_ ah, that's Ast.pm, not AST.pm 17:52
fglock please fix it if possible, I'm on os/x and it doesn't care :( 17:53
pugs_svn r19000 | moritz++ | [kp6] fixed include in t-bootstrap/02-grammar.t
moritz_ Committed revision 19000.
it dies with a segfault, but at least it compiles 17:54
(case insenstive file systems)--
ruoso dlocaus, fglock told me you're interested in yap6 17:55
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fglock moritz_: which perl5 do you use? 17:58
moritz_ fglock: 5.8.8
fglock a segfault in a perl5 regex can make this regex engine unusable
moritz_ installs 5.10 17:59
fglock it abuses a little on regexes
I'm running 5.8.8
moritz_ with 5.10: # Can't use an undefined value as a SCALAR reference at compiled/perl5-kp6-kp6/lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Match.pm line 54.
at the same plase where 5.8.8 dies with a segfault
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moritz_ s/plase/place/ 18:00
pmurias there are no segfaults here, but test 2 and 3 fail 18:01
moritz_ seems to be an issue with debian's perl
fglock pmurias: that's ok - but a segfault is way hard to fix 18:02
pmurias moritz_: you use perl t-bootstrap/02-grammar.t ?
moritz_ pmurias: aye
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moritz_ I just checked out a fresh copy of kp6 to ensure it's not a tainted checkout... still the same behaviour 18:04
fglock hmm - there is an eval-block in that place - I'll try to remove it 18:05
the segfault might be caused by an error in the exception handler 18:06
dlocaus ruoso: I think that may have been a mis-understanding
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dlocaus ruoso: I don't have a lot of time to "share", right now I have time for 1.5 volunteer projects, and kp6 + another are already taking up a lot of my time :) 18:07
ruoso: sorry about the late response, I was moving my car for street cleaning 18:08
pmurias dlocaus: what's the "other" project? ;)
dlocaus A non profit wants me to help rebuild their website.
pmurias dlocaus: dosn't the street cleaning get annoying?
dlocaus I really hate working for free, for people who get paid. For some reason the value of my time drops to "negative numbers"
pugs_svn r19001 | fglock++ | [kp6-perl5rx] minor change trying to avoid an exception 18:09
dlocaus pmurias: yes, the street cleaning does get annoying, but its considerably less annoying than all the other idiot legislation and laws passed by local, state, and federal government.
moritz_ fglock: no change hehe, still segfault
fglock: and don't take my "in the same place" too serious
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fglock moritz_: ok 18:10
moritz_ fglock: the error message appeared in the same place, that doesn't mean the failure was in the same place
dlocaus In the state of califonria, to make a left turn (drivers drive on the right side of the road), it is illegal to go "partially" out into the intersection before you make a left turn. Ergo, it is no almost impossible to make a left turn. We can blame Jackie Spier for that.
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fglock I'll try it out on a new 5.10 install 18:11
dlocaus I could go on for a couple more hours, but I'll spare you. ;)
moritz_ doesn't understand why USA's laws are so much fractured
dlocaus moritz_: responding in a private irc window 18:12
moritz_ nor why any sane country would allow local laws to override country scale law ;)
fglock the devel version in cpan is 5.9.5, dated 7/19/07 - is this correct? 18:17
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dlocaus no 18:17
5.10.rc 2 is out
fglock have a link?
dlocaus one second 18:18
moritz_ fglock: just use the latest blead: dev.perl.org/perl5/source.html
lambdabot Title: Getting and Working With the Perl Source - perl5
fglock dev.perl.org doesn't help
looking
dlocaus perlbuzz.com/2007/11/one-step-close...s-out.html
lambdabot Title: One step closer: Perl 5.10.0 RC2 is out - Perl Buzz, tinyurl.com/2n2qez
dlocaus first link first paragraph
fglock thanks 18:21
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pmurias fglock: wouldn it be better/cleaner to change Emit::Perl5Regex to use Perl6::Match? 18:25
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pmurias * wouldn't 18:28
fglock pmurias: I'm still debugging the perl5rx backend, specially " from_global_data() "
we can split the Perl 5 specifics to a separate module later
that is, if the segfault can be fixed 18:29
pmurias fglock: do you get the segfault? 18:30
fglock no, it works here - I'm now installing 5.10
moritz_ it works on a different debian maschine for me 18:31
so not sure where my problem is, actually
damianc now whats an automation for provisioning?
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pmurias damianc: what's the context? 18:33
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fglock moritz_: nice to know :) 18:34
damianc something for a DC frontend? 18:35
moritz_ understands nothing
damianc feels stupid
fglock brb 18:47
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